I don't think I like that attitude either, but...

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Posted by angel_of_teamygin (Gold Member) (Ranked on Team Gin (Yahoo) Ladder) on October 22, 2003 at 12:33:04:

In Reply to: Re: Unmelding Rule - Please read posted by tdeem1 (OpManager) on October 20, 2003 at 21:10:24:

then again, your statement that "I wouldn't rejoin to play with the unmeld (I'll assume you meant to add "rule" here) in place" shows that your attitude toward this ladder as a staff member leaves something to be desired as well.

while I disagree with the negative approach that he used, I agree with pe_pepe's premise that the people who are complaining the loudest now must not have found it to be important enough to take the time to vote when the issue was in the booth. If they had, the issue could not have passed. Count them and you will find that they would have amounted to over half of the total votes that were cast.

You say that "it is them excercising their choice", but I disagree. I say that "it is them taking advantage of a known bug in the gin rummy game to go against traditional Gin Rummy rules". Below I have reposted something that I posted a few weeks back that explains my position in this matter.

As far as a new vote goes, placing ANYTHING into the booth at any time in near future will set the dangerous precedent that if any player does not like the outcome of any vote, and they whine enough (or make enough negative posts in the forum), then they can get another vote... and another... and another... etc., until the outcome satisfies them.

As I have said many times before, I think that since unmelding goes against the spirit of the rules of the game of Gin Rummy (and would not be allowed in a live game), it should not be allowed online either. Just one man's opinion.

-- ATY --

-- REPOST OF "THE CARDS PLAY THEMSELVES" --

In almost every card game that I play, there is a rule (Sometimes implied and sometimes stated), that deals with this situation. Simply Stated, the rule states that "The Cards Play Themselves".

What this means is that when the time to declare the cards arises, a hand is valued at its maximum potential, and not an arbitrary value dictated by the player. For instance, take a look at the following hand where either of 2 cards (7H, JS) will give the player GIN:

(KC KS KD KH, 8H 9H 10H JH QH, QS)

The value of this hand against a knock is 10 points (QS), because the remaining cards form melds. Unmelding the 3 kings (or any of the Hearts) would make the value of the hand more than 10 points, and possibly push an opponent over 200 points. In a card game with a real deck, the rules would not permit such actions. Online, however, there is nothing to prevent a player from doing so.

In my mind, this means that the whole issue comes down to the following question:

Should we allow a player to break the traditional Gin Rummy rule of "The Cards Play Themselves" simply because the online computer program allows the player to do so, or should we create and enforce a rule that dissallows the unmelding of cards?

I think that since unmelding goes against the spirit of the rules of the game (and would not be allowed in a regular game), it should not be allowed online either. Just one man's opinion.

-- ATY --

-- END OF REPOST --

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: then again, your statement that "I wouldn't rejoin to play with the unmeld (I'll assume you meant to add "rule" here) in place" shows that your attitude toward this ladder as a staff member leaves something to be desired as well. : while I disagree with the negative approach that he used, I agree with pe_pepe's premise that the people who are complaining the loudest now must not have found it to be important enough to take the time to vote when the issue was in the booth. If they had, the issue could not have passed. Count them and you will find that they would have amounted to over half of the total votes that were cast. : You say that "it is them excercising their choice", but I disagree. I say that "it is them taking advantage of a known bug in the gin rummy game to go against traditional Gin Rummy rules". Below I have reposted something that I posted a few weeks back that explains my position in this matter. : As far as a new vote goes, placing ANYTHING into the booth at any time in near future will set the dangerous precedent that if any player does not like the outcome of any vote, and they whine enough (or make enough negative posts in the forum), then they can get another vote... and another... and another... etc., until the outcome satisfies them. : As I have said many times before, I think that since unmelding goes against the spirit of the rules of the game of Gin Rummy (and would not be allowed in a live game), it should not be allowed online either. Just one man's opinion. : -- ATY -- : -- REPOST OF "THE CARDS PLAY THEMSELVES" -- : In almost every card game that I play, there is a rule (Sometimes implied and sometimes stated), that deals with this situation. Simply Stated, the rule states that "The Cards Play Themselves". : What this means is that when the time to declare the cards arises, a hand is valued at its maximum potential, and not an arbitrary value dictated by the player. For instance, take a look at the following hand where either of 2 cards (7H, JS) will give the player GIN: : (KC KS KD KH, 8H 9H 10H JH QH, QS) : The value of this hand against a knock is 10 points (QS), because the remaining cards form melds. Unmelding the 3 kings (or any of the Hearts) would make the value of the hand more than 10 points, and possibly push an opponent over 200 points. In a card game with a real deck, the rules would not permit such actions. Online, however, there is nothing to prevent a player from doing so. : In my mind, this means that the whole issue comes down to the following question: : Should we allow a player to break the traditional Gin Rummy rule of "The Cards Play Themselves" simply because the online computer program allows the player to do so, or should we create and enforce a rule that dissallows the unmelding of cards? : I think that since unmelding goes against the spirit of the rules of the game (and would not be allowed in a regular game), it should not be allowed online either. Just one man's opinion. : -- ATY -- : -- END OF REPOST --

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